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General Discussion (Model Railroader)

Started by spencerritchie at 07-13-2004 5:37 PM. Topic has 26 replies.
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   07-13-2004, 5:37 PM
spencerritchie

Joined on 11-02-2003
Posts 12
Post Icon Applying Decals
I'm having a heck of a time applying decals to my cars. I've tried several reccomendations I found in MR. But they still look sloppy, or won't adhere to the car kit I built. So I'm looking for suggestions on how to apply them. And if they don't stick, how to reapply them.
Thanks in advance,

Spencer
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   07-13-2004, 5:55 PM
DonaldAgne


Joined on 06-24-2003
JP
Posts 104
Post Icon RE: Applying Decals
Spencer,

Decals look best and adhere best when applied to a glossy surface. Try applying a coat of Future floor wax or clear glossy paint to the area where you want to place the decal. When all your decals are in place, spray or bru***he whole car with a clear flat paint. If you want to weather your cars with pastel powders, they will stick better to a flat finish.

Don Agne
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   07-13-2004, 6:18 PM
Big_Boy_4005

Joined on 12-04-2003
St Paul, MN
Posts 6,496
RE: Applying Decals
It's been a long time since I've done water decals. I think most have some kind of sticky substance on them, which comes off if you over soak them, so you want to make sure that you don't do that. Don's advice is all right on, but he left out the decal setting solution. Products like Micro Sol or Solv A Set help disolve the film once you have it in position.

This step makes the decals conform to the contours of the surface. Once you apply one of these products you can't touch the decal again until it is completely dry, or it will smear. If you still have any air bubbles under the decals, poke them with a sharp Xacto or pin and put on a drop of the setting solution.

Now your decals should look like they are part of the paint, with very little ridge along the edges. Now a shot of dulling spray, and people will think you painted the lettering, even if they look close.[swg]
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   07-13-2004, 9:01 PM
Big_Boy_4005

Joined on 12-04-2003
St Paul, MN
Posts 6,496
RE: Applying Decals
I've always thought that Solv A Set was the stronger solution. I never really had a problem, except I think I tried to adjust one and found out the hard way. Once applied care must be taken, because the film is actually MELTING. When dry the decals are part of the paint. So just make sure you have them exactly wehre you want them, and don't bump em when they're wet.[8D]
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   07-14-2004, 8:52 AM
orsonroy


Joined on 03-29-2002
Elgin, IL
Posts 3,583
RE: Applying Decals
Applying decals is just like any other skill. It takes a bit of time, care, experience, practice and patience. And just like any other skill, if you don't practice, accept a few mistakes, and the activity scares the bejeebers out of you, you won't get anywhere with them.

I apply decals all the time, and am in fact going to be decalling several pieces of rolling stock this weekend. This is what works for me:

1) apply a gloss fini***o the model. I generally use Polly Scale paints, so I use a clear gloss coating after the paint is COMPLETELY dry (generally, a week to be safe). I've used all sorts of stuff for this, but I like Testors Glosscoat and Krylon gloss coat the best. Add a light, even coat, and let dry for at least 2 days in a dust-free environment (some sort of plastic box with a lid is best)

2) gather up your tools. I use a metal straightedge, an Xacto knife and plenty of #11 blades, water, decal setting solution (more on that later), a good #0 paintbrush or two, a glass cutting board, reverse-action tweezers (the kind that OPEN when you squeeze them)and lots of paper napkins.

3) Add the decals. This is one of the easier steps, but it requires a few tricks. I use room temperature distilled water to soak decals in (tapwater might discolor the decals). Cut out the decal with a sharp knife (Xacto #11 blade), keeping as close to the lettering as possible. Use a straightedge if necessary, and replace the blade if it tears through the decal paper instead of cutting cleanly (you don't want jagged edges).

Plop the decal in the water (I use a small glass dish), and let it sit in the water for one minute, or until the decal uncurls, or until the decal floats away from the backing paper. You DO NOT want the decal glue to remain on the decal! (it'll leave a white, hazy film under the decal which will NOT go away)

Once the decal is floating around, carefully float the decal back onto the backing paper (with the brush), and grab the paper with the tweezers. Blot off most of the water from the decal onto a paper towel. Using the brush, add a SMALL amount of water onto the model, where you want the decal. Now, position the decal (on the paper) over the general area where you want it. Holding one edge of the decal with the brush, slide the paper out from under the decal. Use the brush (and MAYBE the tip of the tweezers, if you've got the hang of all this and you have a delicate touch) to move the decal to it's exact position. Blot the edges of the decal with the corner of a paper towel, until almost all of the water has wicked away. Smooth out the decal with the brush, and let it dry.

4) Add the FIRST layer of decal setting solution. I use Micro Set for this. Using a fairly broad brush (#0 or #1 works, with soft bristles), quickly add a small amount of solution to the entire decal, and leave. Let dry for 1-3 hours.

5) Slice any air bubbles with a sharp blade, and apply the SECOND layer of decal setting solution. I generally use a stronger solution for the second coat, like Champ's. Let dry 1-3 hours.

6) Check the decals for any remaining air bubbles or ridges, and repeat step 5 until they're gone. Once you're done, let the decals fully dry overnight.

7) add a coat of Dullcoat to the model. I've successfully used Testors Dullcoat and at least two varieties of Krylon flat sprays.

That's it. It might sound like you need three hands at times, but you really don't. Only work on one side of a car at a time, and start with fairly thick (and forgiving) decals like Champ's until you get the hang of it. I generally assembly-line decalling when I can. I can bang out the sides of 10 twin hoppers in a couple of hours.

Modeling the NKP in Peoria, circa 1949
"Steam: the only choice!"

Ray Breyer




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   07-14-2004, 9:23 AM
Big_Boy_4005

Joined on 12-04-2003
St Paul, MN
Posts 6,496
RE: Applying Decals
Now there's a man with a plan!!! I didn't know that part about the glue leaving a haze. Thanks Ray.
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   07-14-2004, 3:03 PM
Railroading_Brit

Joined on 09-08-2003
Wales
Posts 3,119
RE: Applying Decals
I agree about the distilled water - I boil the kettle, let it cool, then use some of the boiled water - have had no problems with "watermarks" ever since, and it's cheaper than buying distilled water.
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   07-14-2004, 3:23 PM
Noah Hofrichter


Joined on 01-06-2004
Reedsburg WI (near Wisconsin Dells)
Posts 3,207
RE: Applying Decals
The use of a gloss paint makes it so you can usually skip the clear gloss coat under the decals, but still use a dull or semi-gloss finnish over the top. I prefer testors dullcoat, but what ever you want is fine. I have had some problems with Krylon clear coat, but other people have not, so I'd test it if you're going to used that. on the inside of the car ro some thing.

Noah



Click the image above to visit my website, Badger Rails.

My Model Railroad Club's website:
http://sandhousecrew.webng.com
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   07-14-2004, 3:46 PM
dano99a


Joined on 10-11-2002
Columbus, OH
Posts 426
RE: Applying Decals
A few simples steps:

- Soak the decals until they float on top of the water.
- Give whatever your decaling a coat of clear gloss coat
- Let dry
- Using Micro SET put some down in the area where decal is going
- Put decal on top of wet area of Micro SET
- Let dry
- Once dry "gently" put Micro SOL on the decal (makes it conform to the surface)
- Let dry
- Once that is dry you may want to hit it again with the SOL
- Let dry
- Once your done applying all the decals, give item a good coating of clear Dull Coat
- Let dry
- Add weathering if you want
- Spray with Dull Coat again.
- Enjoy



DANO
C&O lives on!!!

Visit my railfan community site:
http://www.crtraincrew.com
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   07-14-2004, 5:52 PM
Big_Boy_4005

Joined on 12-04-2003
St Paul, MN
Posts 6,496
Post Icon RE: RE: Applying Decals
QUOTE: Originally posted by Railroading_Brit

I agree about the distilled water - I boil the kettle, let it cool, then use some of the boiled water - have had no problems with "watermarks" ever since, and it's cheaper than buying distilled water.


Be careful, because using the boiled water from the kettle is not anything close to distilled water. If it works for you that's what counts.

For distilled water, collect the steam from the kettle and let it condense back to liquid. THAT'S DISTILLED WATER!!!. That's also why it's expensive. The energy used to make it.

The stuff in the kettle may not have bacteria, but any mineral content that occurs naturally in the tap water will now be concentrated! The pure water was boiled off into the air. It sounds like your tap water is just fine, and the kettle may not even be necessary.
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   07-15-2004, 11:29 PM
spencerritchie

Joined on 11-02-2003
Posts 12
RE: Applying Decals
Just a note to say THANKS to all that answered. I got a lot of good ideas. I really appreciate the help!!

Spencer
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   07-19-2004, 12:53 PM
Apennsyrrfan

Joined on 04-23-2004
Wyncote, PA
Posts 10
RE: Applying Decals
If you have a de-humidifier, the water that is condenses out of the air is distilled water, without the mineral content of condensed steam from your kettle. The wter should be emtied daily from the basin to prevent mold and bacteria growth. On or two humid days should allow you to fill a onegallon, fully washed milk jug.

Paul R. Greenwald
PRRT&HS #1802, Phila Chapter #2009
NMRA #129229
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   07-19-2004, 2:28 PM
Noah Hofrichter


Joined on 01-06-2004
Reedsburg WI (near Wisconsin Dells)
Posts 3,207
RE: Applying Decals
I didn't know that about the De humidifier water, I'll have to try that some time. Thanks for the tip.

Noah


Click the image above to visit my website, Badger Rails.

My Model Railroad Club's website:
http://sandhousecrew.webng.com
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   11-04-2004, 2:03 PM
danmerkel

Joined on 11-15-2002
US
Posts 100
Post Icon RE: RE: Applying Decals
QUOTE: Originally posted by wmlurgan

All equipment that I lettered I use DEFT to seal the decals. One quick spray and the decal melts into cracks, over rivets etc. I stumbled into this many years ago and was impressed with the results. It can be purchased at most hardwar stores and walmart. You would want the semi gloss finish. It works on many other things as well.


What exactly is DEFT?

dlm
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   11-05-2004, 8:39 AM
dkelly

Joined on 04-24-2004
Lubbock, TX
Posts 586
RE: Applying Decals
Gonna go look for some deft! Hopefully I can get the same results as wmlurgan. If not, I'll keep looking. That's what is soooooo coooool about this hobby. Many possible solutions to any given problem. Find the one that works for you and have at it!!
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   11-11-2004, 7:54 PM
Robert Knapp


Joined on 07-28-2004
Weymouth, Ma.
Posts 2,564
RE: Applying Decals
All great tips for decals, like that 3M fine line tape trick. One thing to remember about Microscale decals is that most of the larger heralds/ side lettering etc. the decal film tapers off . Avoid cutting the film when trimming. I believe this is mentioned in their instructions.
I'll have to give the Deft thing a try- Only thing is, if decal doesn't snuggle down as you like, is it already sealed and added coats will not work to soften again.
Great thread,
Bob K.

Modeling B&O- Chessie

Bob K.
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